ROME – In recent weeks, careful observers of the Roman Catholic Church have peered into the shadow of the Vatican walls for evidence that Pope Francis is about to retire.

They pointed to an unexpected move to create new cardinals in August as a sign that Francis, 85, was amassing the college that will elect his successor before an early exit.

They read in depth his planned visit to an Italian city linked to a medieval pope who surrendered.

They saw the Pope’s use of a wheelchair and the cancellation of a trip to Africa as evidence of the premature end of his pontificate, despite the Vatican’s explanations on the healing of his right knee.

But in an interview published Monday, Francis denied the rumors, calling the alleged evidence simple “coincidences” and telling Reuters the idea of ​​the resignation “never crossed my mind.”

Not at the moment.

“Not at the moment. To tell the truth.”

The only shadow that seemed real then was that cast by Francis’ predecessor, Pope Benedict XVI, who in 2013 became the first pontiff to retire in nearly 600 years.

In doing so, he changed the nature of the papacy and the perception of a permanent mission assigned by the Holy Spirit to a more earthly vocation, subject to political pressures, health assessments and considerations on the best interests of the Church.

“Now it’s much easier to imagine his resignation because Benedict paved the way for us and changed our perception,” said Giovanna Chirri, a veteran Vatican journalist who broke the news of Benedict’s retirement when she understood the pope, with great surprise of the cardinals around him, resigning his resignation speaking in Latin.

“It’s not like it used to be”.

Despite all of Benedict’s struggles to make a mark on the church, his papacy is often remembered for his public relations gaffes and uncomfortable revelations about dysfunctions within the Vatican.

But the German pontiff’s decision to resign transformed the office, creating epochs before and after to Benedict when it comes to expectations of how long the popes will remain in power.

Francis clearly lives in the post-Benedictine era, often leaving open the possibility of resigning one day in case of deterioration in health. impossible leads the church.

“But when the time comes when I see that I can’t do it, I will,” Francis said of his retirement in an interview with Reuters.

“And this was Pope Benedict’s great example. It was a very good thing for the church. He told the popes to stop in time. Benedict is one of the great ones ».

On a 2009 visit to L’Aquila, devastated by a recent earthquake, Benedict solemnly placed his pallium, the robe that symbolizes his pontifical authority, on the tomb of Celestine V.

In 2010 he returned to nearby Sulmona, known for popular confetti at Italian weddings and Vatican receptions, and again honored Celestino V as he prayed over his remains.

In 1294 Celestino issued a decree affirming the right of a pope to resign and then acted accordingly.

His successor imprisoned him and then died in prison.

Dante then put him in Hell for “the great refusal”.

Not in vain, no other Pope took the name of Celestine.

Benedict later told an interviewer that he was not at all considering resigning when he visited the tomb, but was on the mind of the church’s rumors when the Vatican announced that Francis would celebrate mass on August 28 and open the “Holy Door”. . in the basilica that houses the tomb of Celestino, to whose example Benedict later followed.

Benedict received a great greeting, with an outburst of adoration that mostly escaped him during his eight years of reign, telling the faithful that “loving the Church also means having the courage to make difficult and painful decisions, always putting first place the good of the Church themselves “.

His conservative supporters weren’t very happy, especially when he promised to be “hidden from the world”.

It was withdrawn in the Vatican gardens, also to prevent the creation of a center of alternative power to the Vatican City.

But for the next nine years, Benedict, who assumed the title “Pope Emeritus”, was at times favorably invoked by Francis’ traditionalist opponents and emerged to give distress to his successor, although a book written on his name defended strenuously celibacy while Francis considered whether to lift the restriction on married priests in remote areas.

While Francesco and Benedetto, now 95 years old and extremely fragile, have remained deeply respectful of each other, the inability to have a multitude of three potatoestwo retired and one in power, he has denied all recent rumors of resignation.

Francis is now the same age as Benedict when he stepped down and aging has had its impact on his nearly ten years on the throne.

His recent health problems and stern expressions fueled speculation about his retirement, especially among enemies in the Vatican who were hoping to see him leave.

Last July he was operated on to remove part of the colon.

The operation kept him hospitalized for 10 days, although he later told a Spanish-language radio station that he had never thought about quitting.

The Pope also has problems with sciatica, a chronic nerve disease that causes pain in the back, hip and legs.

Outbreaks forced him to cancel or edit high-profile appearances and, with his knee problems, put him in a wheelchair at times.

Even Francis’ supporters openly declared that his pontificate had entered his own final stage.

“But even with the best prognosis, age is catching up with Francis,” wrote Reverend Thomas Reese, a Jesuit like Francis, in Religion News Service at the time of his surgery.

“We can remember his hospitalization as the moment that marked the beginning of the end of his pontificate”.

But in his interview with Reuters, conducted on July 2 at his Santa Marta residence in the Vatican, Francis walked, albeit precariously, with a cane.

“I have to start moving because there is a danger of losing muscle tone if you don’t move,” he said.

“Is getting better”. Once seated, he was sharp and outgoing and made it clear that he has a lot more to do.

He rejected other Vatican rumors (“judicial gossip”) that doctors had discovered cancer during an operation last year (“they didn’t tell me anything about it”) and explained for the first time that he had undergone “a small fracture in his right knee due to a misstep and that his gait was altered an inflamed ligament.

“I’m slowly getting better,” he said, adding that he was receiving laser and magnetic therapy and avoided an operation because general anesthesia in last year’s colon surgery had caused negative side effects.

He said the doctor’s orders about a “health risk” to his knee forced him to postpone his trip to South Sudan and Congo.

The decision, he said, caused him “a lot of suffering” but risked canceling all his knee therapy.

He expressed hope to visit Moscow and then Kiev, Ukraine, shortly after returning from Canada, which he plans to visit later this month.

“The first thing is to go to Russia to try to help in some way,” he said. “But I’d like to go to both capitals”.

And inside the church, Francis is still hard at work renovating the church after what he sees as an erosion in the hierarchy.

He’s making significant changes to the Curia, the bureaucracy that runs the Vatican, looking for modernize the liturgy and appointing new lay people and women to positions of authority.

“As long as he is able to coordinate the process he has begun, he will want to do so,” Chirri said, adding:

“If he has enough energy to rule, he will continue to do so for another 10 years.”

Gaia Pianigiani contributed to this report.

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