Democracy is under constant threat, and only the continued education of citizens can prevent its disintegration. The warning comes from Italian Domenico de Masi, one of the world’s most influential sociologists and author of several books, among them. “Creative Leisure”.
Inside Exclusive interview with UOLExamining Brazil’s image abroad, the intellectual said that President Jair Bolsonaro is considered to have “mediocre” and “dictatorial tendencies”.
Here are key excerpts from the interview:
Chad: Why is democracy in crisis in the world?
From Masi: As a democratic regime in the world, we should take into account that countries are increasing. From this perspective, there is no crisis. But we say that democratic countries are in crisis because of our push for a better democracy. Deep down, democracy is always in crisis, but the truth is there is no better regime than democracy, even in crisis. A democracy in crisis is better than a dictatorship.
Democracy has always had problems. Today, however, these problems are related to rapid technological development. I’ll give you an example: It would take both Emperor Julius Caesar and Napoleon Bonaparte almost the same time to get from Rome to Paris. And that’s a difference of more than a thousand years. From Napoleon to the present, we can make this journey in two hours without any imperial privileges. Just being a citizen.
Thus, for centuries the organization of the state was a fixed thing. Little has changed in this regard from Julius Caesar to Napoleon. Since the Industrial Revolution and today, problems have accelerated with the post-industrial society. For example, a watch has remained virtually unchanged for centuries. A cell phone nowadays has to be changed frequently. It is difficult for politics to keep up with technological progress. That’s why we’re talking about the crisis of democracy today. It is a crisis that has a relationship between technological progress and legislative capacity.
In this respect, the organization of the company, the family, and adultery are also in crisis. All because of technology.
Wasn’t democracy ready for social media?
No one was prepared for this kind of technology.
Why are anti-democratic forces resisting and returning to threaten the system?
There are two main trends in our culture: innovation and conservation. This conflict is in our DNA. Sometimes one wins, sometimes the other wins. Another distinction that exists is between the individual and society. Neoliberalism places the individual above all else. Social democracy, on the other hand, sees society as a priority. These two powers are infinite. Sometimes someone wins. Sometimes the other wins. Therefore, we have an alternation between less democratic and more democratic governments.
But isn’t democracy guaranteed to rein in anti-democratic forces?
It depends on the balance of power between democratic citizens and authoritarian individuals. The individual who loves similarity and the individual who loves difference. This relationship is constantly changing, thanks to culture, the capacity of political leaders, and the strength of parties.
Democracy is not exempt from the danger of dictatorship. To survive, democracy must always fight. And fight pedagogically through the formation of the citizen. And this is done in the family, at school, in the press and in social networks.
And has democracy education been successful?
not in Italy. If you beat Bolsonaro in Brazil, you failed. If you lose, there is hope. But that depends on the intellectuals.
For what reason?
They are the ones who teach at school. Journalists. They are the ones who write books and create ideas. Those who create new ideas. Therefore, their responsibilities are very high.
What is the image of Brazil in the world today?
After the government of Fernando Henrique Cardoso, Brazil’s image in the world was very good. It was even higher in the first Lula government. It remained high in the second period. It started to be a little lower with Dilma. And then, during Lava Jato and Bolsonaro, the picture was always pretty bad.
We must take into account that Brazil, unlike the USA, has always had a great love for the world. Americans have many enemies. Brazil has no enemies. An operation against the Twin Towers requires a deep hatred of the Americans. And that’s not against Brazil. Brazil is loved. It is one of the most peaceful countries in the world. In 500 years, there has only been one war abroad. Italy fought numerous wars during this period. Image is still good. But the image of his government is terrible.
What contributed to this?
It started with Operation Lava Jato, which gave the appearance of a corrupt country. This also happened with Operation Manos Limpas in Italy. During the Lula government, Brazil and China were the only countries in the world where poverty had decreased. With Bolsonaro, the image completely collapsed. Bolsonaro is seen around the world as a mediocre leader with dictatorial intentions.
But what did his victory in the elections represent?
It is important to understand the weakness of the opposition. In the special case of PT, which is in an extreme state. Also, the entire press was against PT and Lula. Then there was still a big abstention.
Is Bolsonaro’s defeat enough to defeat Bolsonarism?
I said that the tension between democracy and dictatorship is endless. There will always be a danger that democracy will be replaced by a dictatorship. A different possibility opens up in Brazil. Lula today is not the same as the Lula president. Arrested, closed. He had every opportunity to think about his mistakes, his enemies, his false friends. And now he knows that if Lula wins, this is his last historic opportunity to go down in history with a positive image. He had maximum strength, lost everything, got a chance to think. But I do not believe that Brazilian intellectuals and elites can seize this opportunity.
What are the big challenges for Brazil in the coming years?
As in the last century: social inequality, education and violence. At the bottom of this problem is our corporate corruption problem. The organization of the Brazilian state is constitutionally corrupt. It is legal corruption. I’ll give you an example: a Brazilian MP has much more money and privileges than an Italian MP. This is institutionalized corruption. As it is by law, it is more difficult to eliminate.
source: Noticias
