Leon Panetta knows the inside and outside of the US government and has held key positions.
He was chief of staff to President Bill Clinton, who was the director of the CIA intelligence agency and secretary of defense under the Obama administration.
As commander of the CIA, he was responsible for overseeing the operation that led to Osama bin Laden’s whereabouts and death.
As head of the Pentagon, he had to take over the system of security alliances that the US has with countries around the world, starting with NATO, which now plays a central role in the war in Ukraine.
Panetta criticizes Russian President Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine and sees the current conflict as a “proxy war” (third party conflict) between the US, NATO and Russia.
In this interview with BBC News Mundo (BBC’s Spanish news service), Panetta says that Putin only understands the message of power, so this is the path Ukraine must follow to make peace negotiations workable.
BBC News World – You said that diplomacy will go nowhere unless the Ukrainians have the ability to influence the negotiations. What can Ukraine do to acquire this capability, and how can the West help it achieve it?
Leon Panetta – The most important thing for the Ukrainians is to continue to win the war against the Russians. This is the most important advantage they have. Of course, they have so far managed to prevent the Russians from taking over their capital, Kiev, and are now at war to ensure that the Russians do not take control of the Donbas region.
But the better the Ukrainians face the Russians on the battlefield, the more power they will have in negotiations.
BBC News World – Is that the best way to make peace?
panetta – TRUE. There is only one message that Putin understands: power.
BBC News World – While you were defense minister, the US turned its attention from Europe to Asia, even though Putin had fought a war against Georgia. Do you think this shift of attention towards Asia was a mistake?
panetta – No, because as we deploy additional warships in the Pacific, we also increased our troop presence in Europe to maintain strong support for NATO.
BBC News World – Would you say that Russia is currently the biggest threat to US security and world order?
panetta – I think the truth is that we face a lot of threats in the 21st century. Russia is at the top of the list right now because of their war in Ukraine.
The message sent to Russia about the price it must pay for its invasion is the same message the United States and its allies should send to China, North Korea and Iran. to war.
BBC News World – You said that what is happening in Ukraine is a proxy war against Russia. Can you explain why you think so?
panetta – The United States and our NATO allies are united against Putin’s invasion of Ukraine. And of course, thanks to this alliance, they are trying to make Russia pay for this invasion.
They imposed heavy economic sanctions against Russia. They are providing the Ukrainians with weapons to help them fight the Russian invasion and empowering NATO countries to make it clear that they will resist further Russian invasion.
The United States and its NATO allies have taken a crucial decision to support Ukraine in its defense efforts. It is clear that these united democratic countries are doing their best to stop Putin and Russia.
BBC News World – So it will be the level of participation and intention of the Western alliance that will make this a “proxy war”…
panetta – Yes, I mean, if the United States and our allies are doing everything they can to support Ukraine in its war against Russia, you could say it’s the equivalent of a proxy war.
BBC News World – Some experts argue that the West is not using Ukraine as a “proxy” (a third country waging war on Russia instead of the USA and Europe), but simply helping a legitimate government defend itself…
panetta – It depends on your definition of “proxy”. From what President Biden has said and what Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin has said in recent weeks, it’s clear that the goal here is to weaken Russia.
[Nota da BBC: após esta entrevista, Biden negou que o que está acontecendo na Ucrânia seja uma guerra por procuração contra a Rússia].
BBC News World – If what the US and NATO are waging is truly a proxy war, and the US Secretary of Defense says he wants to see Russia weakened, it’s possible that Moscow feels it has the right to take the war beyond Russia’s borders. ?
panetta – Putin and Moscow have decided to go to war, occupying a sovereign democracy. They are the ones who have to suffer the consequences of their invasion and the best way to end this conflict is if Putin and Russia decide to leave Ukraine. This is the result.
BBC News World – You were the secretary of defense and also the director of the CIA. How do you evaluate Biden’s initial strategy of sharing information with the public about Putin’s war plans in Ukraine?
panetta – I think it was a very effective strategy to inform the public about what Russia is doing in its plans to invade Ukraine. Russia continued to deny it, while Putin continued to deny that they would invade Ukraine, all the evidence and information clearly showed that they were planning the invasion.
I think it’s important for the public to understand the hypocrisy that Putin and Russia are displaying by lying to the world about their true intentions.
BBC News World – Some argue that by doing this, Biden could jeopardize some of his intelligence assets?
panetta – I think there are various sources of intelligence today, be it technological or human. There are different sources and some don’t put people at risk so I’m sure they are careful about the intelligence they post.
BBC News World – Regarding NATO enlargement, do you think the alliance has gone too far in adding new members, or should it go further when there is an opportunity for enlargement?
panetta – I think the NATO decision is a decision made by independent and sovereign countries, and if those countries have decided that they want to be a part of NATO – like Finland and Sweden, for example, who are considering this possibility today – then I think it is a decision that these countries should make.
I believe alliances are absolutely necessary to confront our enemies like Russia and others.
BBC News World – But usually the great powers feel threatened if they have a strong alliance around them…
panetta – The best way for Russia not to be threatened is to be part of the international family of nations, to trade, to establish financial relations, to try to promote peace and prosperity with other countries. Thus, you protect your security. Not by war.
BBC News World – How do you think this war will end?
panetta – I pray it ends soon. I think Putin should understand that no matter how much he destroys, no matter how many innocents he kills, he cannot achieve victory in Ukraine. I think only then will we have a chance to end this war when you are willing to understand it.
BBC News World – How close are we to that point?
panetta – I think the next few weeks will tell us a lot about whether we’ll get to that point anytime soon or whether this war will be prolonged in the future.
source: Noticias
