“You can’t blindly believe in the US.” He was one of the world leaders who admitted this to me and changed his relationship with the White House dramatically, and with his decision, a whole era in history came to an end.
This is Mikhail Gorbachev, the last president of the USSR, who died today at the age of 91.
Over the past few years, I’ve met with him five times, each time in long conversations about geopolitics. He made no secret of his disappointment at not playing a larger role on the international stage, ignored in his home country and not always respected in the West.
One of the interviews took place in 2013. My second child had just been born and was still in the delivery room. Gorbachev thought, speaking slowly, with difficulty moving, before giving each answer. In his dialogue, he stirred nostalgia, disappointment, and rejection of any attempt to leave a question unanswered.
At this encounter, he opened a book with a photograph of Ronald Reagan and sighed. “Oh, it was a very important moment in this world,” he said.
A few years ago, when I told him I needed to talk to him about the 20th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall, he had an idea: I’d take a train with him between Geneva and Freiburg. We talked for over an hour as the train passed through Switzerland, and his speech was interrupted only by his surprise at the magnificent view.
After everything he had to say, it was his turn to ask: “What is Lula like as president?”. He warned me at that moment: the world is increasingly dangerous, and even in the Cold War the stakes weren’t that high.
It corroborates some excerpts from interviews since 2004. In these conversations he talks about Brazil’s international role, the environment, Cuba, Syria, anti-gay laws in Russia, the Security Council and many more:
One of the innovations in the international geopolitical scenario in recent years is the creation of BRICS. Do you believe this is a bloc with common interests or just a fiction?
It’s not fiction. When Brazil speaks, the world listens today. Russia, India and China carry weight when they speak. It is an important alliance to balance other forces. It is a kind of balance established with respect to other power poles. It is important for the blog to be successful.
Do you see street protests in Brazil in a Democratic country like Mr.
R People want more. When the government goes out on the street, it should listen to its people. He says he wants to be heard. Governments that don’t listen to their populations have to prepare for a lot of trouble. Many politicians hate me because I always defend those who take to the streets. In Brazil, this will continue unless the government takes action.
Like Mr. Do you see economic pressure that conflicts with environmental protection, especially in regions like the Amazon?
The forest needs to be protected. However, this requires political will. We are seeing significant climate change in many parts of the world and this will be a problem today, not in the future.
The USSR supported the Cuban regime for years. What do you believe will happen in Mr. Havana?
Time will tell what the future of Cuba is. It has always been my position that we cannot lecture China on what to do. It is a country with a deep-rooted history that has contributed a lot to humanity. China will have to deal with the same problems we faced in Russia in our transition. In Cuba they are stubborn. It is a country that has a place in the international community and is respected. And if someone tries to dictate or make unfair demands on Cuba, that won’t work. Let’s see what is going to happen. Fidel Castro is still very influential in Cuba and I think there will be changes, but the decision is up to them and Cuba still has many friends. I hope they normalize relations with the USA. But that depends more on the USA than on Cuba. Many of the problems we see are still inherited from the Cold War and mistakes made there. We still haven’t completely gotten over them.
To what extent are personal relationships between leaders critical to resolving international crises?
The human factor is very important especially in democratic processes around the world. Many dictators have left power in the last 20 years, and this has created opportunities for trade-offs. And this human factor is essential for international dialogue. Leaders need new ways to initiate dialogue. I remember when German reunification was urgent. Margaret Thatcher was against it. France was also against it, but there was another way of saying it. “We love the Germans so much that we want them to have two states,” they said. For the USSR and the USA, the situation was more complicated. we were discussing.
But like NATO and everything else, there were problems that were seen quite differently. The position of the USSR almost to the end was that Germany should not be reunited. But in the end, yes, and we came to an agreement that the country would decide which side it wanted to be on. Today it is said that Gorbachev sold East Germany very cheaply. Reunification took place while many things were happening in the USSR and Eastern Europe.
We also trusted the German people. We thought: “Well, a lot has happened in the history of Germany and the new generation has proven that they can live democratically. Because I say this: because we were always talking between the leaders. We fought, yes. different visions … But in the end everyone came to an agreement. It was possible to talk. The important thing was the mutual trust we built between the leaders.
Could you evaluate the anti-gay laws in Russia like Mr.
There are many groups that want to live in their own way. These are things that were decided a few years ago in other countries. But there is still no consensus in Russia, and part of the population believes that this may affect young people in the wrong way. You cannot speed up processes in a society. This command cannot be issued.
Isn’t it frustrating that the Security Council is paralyzed by the war in Syria?
I can’t believe there is nothing on the council. The UN has a primary responsibility for peace. I don’t trust either, and it would be naive to think that we can make a careful attack and it will only hit certain areas. At the same time, I know that Obama is not the type of person to take everything. And I still think about it.
But isn’t it Russia that hinders the Council’s action?
They blocked a decision that was a bad decision. The right to veto a bad decision is a positive thing. Veto was not invented by stupid people. These are not trivial decisions. But it’s more about human life. Some believe guns are the solution. I can not believe this.
source: Noticias
